Log In. She has never seriously considered getting involved with the church beyond that, but has expressed to me that it is quite difficult to actually get connected at Watermark Church because everything is centered around MEMBERSHIP and COMMUNITY GROUPS and you cant have one without the other. i dont believe a word he says. Why is it that Im led to believe (Based on reports and personal experience) that one has to possess certain sociopathic traits in order to be a successful megachurch pastor? Its inappropriate and wrong for a pastor serving the church to live an opulent lifestyle. The church was founded on Biblical principles from families that really love the Lord. He could have sold the house when it was gifted to him, bought a home more in line with a humble servant leader, and donated the additional proceeds to the church. Just because you havent personally experienced or have personal knowledge of these things happening does NOT mean they didnt happen to someone else. You can tailor it to your groups needs The only remaining elders at Watermark are Mickey Friedrich and Kyle Thompson, though a third man, Blake Holmes, has been named a candidate for eldership. Those who love control and achievement thrive very well there. You are correct. The only fees were for the materials we used. However, if you have any experience with these covenants or have heard stories of people who have dealt with a church where they signed one of these and there was a point of contention or disagreement, you know that these are LEGALLY binding agreements and can be used against you (re: current The Village Church lawsuit& the Karen Hinkley story.). The author writes in an article titled Elder-Rule governance removes any hope of independent accountability the elders are originally self-appointed and thereafter elder-appointed. The Asbury Revival Is Over. May 28, 2006 — -- A female member of the Watermark Community Church, . Watermark Video: Women's Channel 8y ago First and foremost- this is a season that God is shaking things up. If a member doesnt leave in good standing, WM will pursue that person and enforce church discipline. Todd Wagner is a guy that would jump in a foxhole with me with the bullets are flying, and I for him. If we believe that, we should also have a desire to please God, and want the way we live our lives to reflect that desire. Our post-modern tendency is to use culture as a reference point, not the Bible. Watermark Church is a popular, non-denominational church in the Dallas area which has about 11,000 members. Photo taken March 7, 2014. . He was then the most arrogant and disrespectful person imaginable. Amy Smith of the blog Watchkeep has documented her experience there, and it bears much of the hallmarks of a cult. Came off as legalistic trolling. Even through this challenges we can be so judgements these day. Im Jesus name. People are insecure, confused, listen to gossip,Read more . Wagner said he is excited about what God is going to do at the church in its next season and urged the congregation to obey their leaders. It was meant to jerk everyones chain. . If you dont want to share your story you dont have to. Just study what a grandiose narcissist is and you will see why. a smarmy, unctuous reply. Definitely they are important to Christian theology, but they fall within a spectrum of orthodox third-rank doctrines. . Genuine question, The house was given to him from a member of the church years ago. what is lavish? As per usual, all white and all males. For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God., Wagner also warned the congregation with words from the passage, stating that after my departure savage wolves will come among you, and from your own selves men will (rise up), speaking perverse things. Then, modifying Pauls description of his three years spent in Ephesus to Wagners 22 years at Watermark, Wagner added, Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of 22 years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears., The congregation at Watermark responded to Wagner with a standing ovation. Ashley Ruiz alleges in a lawsuit that a member of the International Churches of Christ sexually molested her when she was . Over the years, Wagner has been dogged by allegations of spiritual abuse published on a blog called No Eden Elsewhere. How do you know Todd pays that? How many times have you actually talked to Todd? Most people in the U.S. have a lavish lifestyle compared to most believers around the world. Appreciate your response! the family in a 1970s 2,100 sf home of their own in the suburbs may feel they have the short end of the stick, and see the family in the newer 3,400 sf home as having amazing luxuries. Watermark was founded in November 7, 1999 with an outward-focused ministry that sought to minister to "the unchurched, dechurched, dead-churched and unmoved." [1] Watermark averages about 9,000 weekly attendants. The first being last and the last being first is not how most Christians think. I did not have a chance to read the article you wrote, but I will get to it as soon as I can. or. Per Todd Wagner I was not the right person or the right fit or whatever he thought. I dont know if I am over-reacting when Todd made a off the cuff remark about taking his wife some where last week where she could be warm. Why wouldnt they just tell the church what happened? Evangelical Church. agreed. If by community you mean confessing every single sin in your life to a group of virtual strangers, disclosing your personal financial information, and seeking the approval of the group to change jobs, buy a house, start a family then no,Read more , Christian community can have so many different levels, and not everyone is seeking the same depth in all relationships. I was a member for nearly 14 years, sure bunch of us saw some challenges (as some churches may face) not doubt. John Doe's attorney says his client is now considering a civil lawsuit against the church for slander.7 Who aint very happy. Darren, heres what I see are the problems with Elder-Rule church government. no one was threatening him he deliberately chose to live as the 1%, say yes & accept it, move in and make it his home. Your tax-deductible gift helps our journalists report the truth and hold Christian leaders and organizations accountable. What do you mean exactly by re-victimization. -, Watermark Community Church has believers SIGN Todd was my counselor at Kanakuk Camps for a summer. Read More. I was blessed to attend Kanakuk for years and years. Remember the verse when most friends depart, there is one who stays closer then the brother. Or evasion? A church membership contract errr. Our church has an elder-type rule that is healthy, but I know of churches that have had an elder-type rule that is not so healthy. Smarmy Dictionary God has allowed the clarity and conviction that I need to not leave a snarky comment, to dry up.. Once youve signed your life over to them, you must either form your own community group or go through the process of being placed in one. In the video, Wagner said that the clarity to step down was not hasty, adding that the discernment process had started a year ago. .. .amazing. He confirmed Leventhals statement that the two are at peace and are in community together.. I canRead more , I can tell you that I know Todd Wagner personally over 20 years ago. And then they agree to work on the same board? Im saying that outta love and also saying it truly saddens me to see many of you have hardened your hearts. While he was pastor at another church in Dallas he followed this same doctrine of sin and follower of Jesus Christ. In the online video, Leventhal described the process of discernment with Wagner as heart-breaking, exhausting, and expensive for Leventhal, his wife, the elder team, and the campus pastor team. . Our mission is to make disciples who are marked by the presence of God in order to leave a lasting mark. 1 Thessalonians 5:21 even so, i think its patently obvious that living as the 1% by 1st world standards, even in part, is lavish by any and all standards. I would be ok disclosing financial information to my community group. I have however heard Todd Wagner say from the pulpit if youre not comfortable giving here thats ok, please give somewhere meaningful to you. The reengage curriculum and groups were excellent! Its all sunshine and roses till you see it firsthand. I came to watermark on a visit with my sons family. A former member of Shekinah Church, who lost a lawsuit against Shinn in which she alleged he swindled her out of $4 million, has issued a dire warning for those who have been lured into the. It is mentioned in this article. Demands full disclosure of finances in church groups, but having a hard time finding his. Paul, thanks for the response. As the CG leader, I went first. Its upto Him. I automatically defended the leaders and staff, and also automatically discredited the victims with pre determined notions the victim was not telling the whole story. The announcement was captured on video and posted online with a statement from the elders. You guys can rip apart our church and Todd all you want, but I know him, and you wont find a man with more of a heart of gold than him. Thanks for the reply. BUT are now returned to Show me one bit of Biblical historicity in favor of the modern seeker-oriented megachurch. Products. Therefore, I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men. To become a member, there are certain things with which a person has to be in agreement, of course; but if a person becomes an elder, then what is expected is more clearly defined. The Watermark spokesperson explained that the church followed the Dallas Independent School District's "standard and customary process for this . It took a tremendous amount of courage for this person to come forward and tell their story, for fear of reactions like yours. Our church does Re-engage and we love it. I bet some of you, dont attend or are part of the church, Jealousy amongst many of you I can smell from here. like hes a programmed automaton. We know a number of people who attend Watermark due to our 10 year stay in dallas. In the video, an emotional Leventhal said that he had resigned on March 26 because of a loss of trust in Todds ability to lead in the role of pastoral elder/senior pastor, which was the direction the elders were wanting to move to.. Just checking out the church and looking at the background info the house has tripled in value since the Wagners bought it 20 years ago hardly a 7 figure home when purchased. Before you Sign. Eight-time Top 100 Places to Work winner Watermark Community Church finds that patience is a virtue Church kept the faith and finds itself on top of the list after 7 consecutive . (I share this not to be super-negative, but just because this practice is far [], CALL TO ACTION Former WM Members Did WM pray for you, or did WM prey on you? Dont need the large meetings with rock music and parking headaches and entertainers with impulse control issues claiming its the Holy Spirit in them. Watermark is a community of faithful, creative, authentic Christ-followers who are united in one purpose: to be and make disciples of Jesus. As for the doctrinal statement issue, I see what you are saying. to verify your name calling., Which of the victims of Readers write about Watermark Community Church's stance on gays, Ken Paxton suing Brownsville, black lives also matter, Michelle Obama and Dallas Stars fans. A major focus of the Community Groups at Watermark and many other churches is to foster the development of deep connection with a small group of fellow believers that enables true Christian accountability. Below are screenshots of their membership covenant. Synopsis of the case is as follows. I also know of churches that do not use this model that are both healthy and unhealthy. i felt like i was watching and listening to animated cardboard characters. Its almost as if Mr. Wagner is concerned that more detailed information will come out. Wagner is all about control and he lost it. Hes definitely not perfect, but he is a good and Godly man who preached the gospel boldly and consistently. He first goes into the definition of the word cult which in latin is the word cultus, defined as to inhabit, dwell; to cultivate. (note spelling a/e) I have met small groups all over the Dallas area of cast aside individuals who bonded over the abuse they experienced while attending this organization. Wowza, what does Whoopie have to do with this? I admit I also used to automatically discredit stories Like this one when I heard them. Both Wagner and Leventhal will remain at Watermark as elders emeritus. Ive never heard of nor attended a church with such a position. Its where two or more are gathered not where two or more thousands are gathered. TWW last left Wagner on leave due to pride in Todd Wagner, the Controversial Pastor of Watermark Church, Steps Away *for a Season. Its clear as mud. No longer fulfill the requirements of membership. He is a restorer and a life giver, even as we ALL come to him seeking forgiveness. If youd like a suggestion for a charity outside of our church well gladly help you. They dont even take a collection in church! Fellowship Church. I have NEVER been asked to, let alone forced, to disclose financial information. I wonder what is considered a lavish lifestyle. Better to have one doctrinal statement that unites both members and elders in my opinion. Usually blood in the water attracts sharks, but nothing that fierce here, just a bunch of blood sucking remoras. 25 years ago, I found myself getting angry atRead more , I was a WM member until I realized that if you fail their morality assessment and they decide you have a pride issue, not a desperate, destitute, homeless or depression issue.. Having been a Watermark (now CityBridge) member since 2016 have never EVER heard these messages thatSusan speaks of. Gateway Church. The gift tax is only levied at the end of someones life when they exceed the gift tax exclusion in their lifetime (which is currently set at $11.7 million per individual). The building and nine acres of land located in an area of Dallas that has a predominant minority population were purchased by the evangelical church for $211,000, according to a government document. Small group of meeting once a week. 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